From: Dennis E. Hamilton [dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
Sent: Friday, 31 August 2001 09:06
To: theory-edge@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [theory-edge] "the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics"

I suggest you add

        http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/MathDrama/reading/Hamming.html

to the list too. 

With regard to your position that

        the theme of the essay could arguably be presaging
        the modern 21st century era of *simulation*....
        which is nothing more than *animated* mathematics!!
        ("algorithms"!!)

I urge you to read both papers and reconsider.  In a sense, by turning mathematics into computations (simulation), we are doing exactly what Hamming notices in his run at the question.  It is not necessarily good news. 

It is apt to consider the themes of "The Advent of the Algorithm", one of my favorite books too, from that perspective.  Here's my citation and a small précis:

        http://orcmid.com/readings/philosophy.htm#[Berlinski2000]

Here's what I see to explore and inquire into out of this:

        1.      Consider that the reduction of science to mathematics is both powerful and lossy.

        2.      Consider that the reduction of mathematics to computation (not even logic!) is also powerful and even more lossy.

        3.      Consider, just consider that: It is a dangerous conceit of computerists that we are actually getting anywhere with our lossy (and not so error-free) simulations and reductions of human existence to computational terms.  The force-fit of man and machine is becoming very awkward.  Experience with social metaphors drawn on the theory of relativity, the theory of evolution, and scientific materialism should make us cautious about putting so much faith in computational *explanation*.

-- Dennis

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Dennis E. Hamilton
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-----Original Message-----
From: vznuri@earthlink.net [mailto:vznuri@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 16:42
To: theory-edge@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [theory-edge] "the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics"


[ ... ]

this is a very famous paper called
"the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics
in the physical sciences," by wigner, 1960.
one of the more important single essays on science
of the 20th century

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/MathDrama/reading/Wigner.html

its interesting wigner chose to restrict his
claim to physical sciences.. it seems the general
claim that math is the handmaiden of science is
more accurate.. where isnt it used in science? how
many fields that call themselves science do not
utilize math?

the theme of the essay could arguably be presaging
the modern 21st century era of *simulation*....
which is nothing more than *animated* mathematics!!
("algorithms"!!)

havent read it myself yet, but have often seen it
cited in various books.. its amazingly
influential among physicists, and at least hotly
debated by mathematicians... lots of cool
theory-edge fodder

[... end ... ]